五一勞動節 - 互助採訪隊報導系列之四 May Day – mutually aiding interview reporting series (4 of 5)

五一勞動節 互助採訪隊報導系列之四

May day – mutually aiding interview reporting series (4 of 5)

前言
Introduction

今年五一勞動節,草根‧行動‧媒體和五個基層團體(香港婦女勞工協會、舊區街坊自主促進組、同根社、古洞支援組、在港印尼移民工協會)合作組成互助採訪隊,每個團體問了一條問題,當中兩個團體趕得及討論並派了工友/街坊參與採訪隊工作。讓我們看看,五一的遊行人士,對一些基層議題的看法。
For this year’s may day, the international workers’ day, the grassroots.action.media cooperated with 5 grassroots organizations (Hong Kong Women Workers’ Association; old district autonomous advance group; New Arrival Women Alliance; Kwu Tung Support Group; Association of Indonesian Migrant Workers in Hong Kong) and formed the mutually aiding interview reporting teams, each organization provided a couple of questions, a couple of the organizations managed to arrange their members to participate in the discussion and the interviewing within a tight time frame.  Let us now listen to the people who participated in the may day’s march, and learn of their views on the grassroots issues.

採訪隊有何目的?Missions of the interview reporting teams?

1)讓草根媒體實習的同學與所實習團體的街坊/工友有合作機會;
1) Allowing chances for the participants of the grassroots media project to engage with the members of the grassroots organizations;

2)讓同學與街坊/工友有練習採訪的機會;
2) Allowing chances for the  participants of the grassroots media project and the members of the grassroots organizations to practice interviewing and report making;

3)讓同學與街坊/工友更了解其他基層團體所關心的議題;
3) Allowing chances for the  participantsZ of the grassroots media project and the members of the grassroots organizations to learn of the concerns and issues of other grassroots organizations;

4)讓遊行群眾向公眾表達他們對這些議題的想法;
4) Allowing chances for the people who joined the march to express their views and thoughts on these issues to the public;

5)讓我們一起報導一些主流媒體不關注的基層議題。
5) Allowing us to report on the grassroots issues which the mass medias have no interest in.

採訪:
Interview:

車仔 (第七屆草根媒體實習生)
Chelly (participant of the 7th grassroots media internship)

Y (草根‧行動‧媒體)
Y (grassroots.action.media)

Terry Narcissan(草根‧行動‧媒體)
Terry narcissan (grassroots.action.media)

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每逢五一勞動節,維園至金鐘的路上都會飄起不同勞工團體的鮮艷旗幟,從大聲公傳來被電波扭曲的口號,廉價卡紙列印的橫額。除了營營役役的打工仔,參與遊行 的還有誰?除了職工盟的三大訴求(立法標準工時、落實全民退保、取消強積金對沖),勞工還遭受什麼不被看見的剝削?我們在遊行隊伍中訪問了他們,談談工 作,談談困境與解決的可能。
In every May Day, the international workers’ day, the road from the Victoria park to admiralty will be filled up with colorful flags of various labour organization, distorted slogans from the loudhailers, banners printed with cheap placards.  besides the painstaking labours, who else are participating in the march?  besides the 3 main demands of the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions (legislate standard working hours, realize universal pension, remove offsetting of the mandatory provident fund), are there other unseen exploitation that the workers are experiencing?  we interviewed them during the march, to talk about works, difficulties and the possibilites of resolutions.

Winnie:病房助理的尊嚴
Winnie: dignity of a patient care assistant

退休前任職公立醫院病房助理的Winnie,負責照顧深切治療部的病人。作為醫務人員本身工作量已很大,經常超時工作又沒有「補水」,輪夜更時更為辛苦。問及醫院的管理關係,她明言「各個都有權管我哋」,甚至姑娘的態度也很差,叫助理做事又不加任何稱呼。長時間的工作和壓力令她患上情緒病,需要看醫生及吃藥。她曾開醫生紙向經理請假,但他們只會「執字粒」,若不宜做病房,則調配其他清潔工作,不予休息。
Winnie worked as a patient care assistant in public hospital before she retired from it, and her responsibility was to take care of the patients in the intensive care unit. Workload for a medical personnel is already very heavy, often working overtime without overtime pay, and it is especially difficult when on overnight shift. When being asked of the
relationship with the management of the hospital, she stated “everyone has an authority over us", the attitude of even the nurses are very bad, they don’t even address the assistants by name when they ordered for their services. The long working hours and the pressure caused her to suffer from moods disorder, and have to seek consultation from the doctor and be on medication. She once applied for leave with the doctor’s certificate, but her manager only play around with the words.Since it adviced that she is not suitable for works in the wards, her manager assigned her to cleaning duties rather than allowing her to take leave and rest.

Winnie對於勞工法例可以加強工人話語權有所質疑,因為在執行上,上司有方法不跟規則,而工人往往受制於經濟壓力只能啞忍。她曾試過寫信向醫管局投訴,但在爭取聯署時很多同事怕秋後算賬都不敢簽名。經理不會暴力地炒魷魚,但可以明目張膽地搞針對:Winnie在生病期間,曾被經理安排每天坐在茶水間不准做事,聲稱若她因工作受傷醫院不會負責;同時同事也會感到不公平,言語中處處刁難。因此,她認為工人自身難以集體向上層施加壓力。
Winnie do have doubts about whether the labour laws could strengthen the power of discourse of the workers.  Because the superiors had ways to go around the rules in practice and the workers would quite oftenly had to swallow it because they were limited by their economical pressure. She once tried to write a complaint letter to the Hospital Authority, but most of the colleagues were afraid to sign on because they were scared that they would be digging their own grave. The manager would not violently fire people, but they could obviously freeze you out: when Winnie was sick, she was being assigned by the manager to just sit in the pantry and not allowed to do anything everyday, saying that the hospital did not want her to have any accident during work and be made responsible for it; and the colleagues would find it unfair, they would talk bad of her.Therefore, she thought that it is difficult for workers themselves to pressure their superior collectively.

Winnie也有接觸過工會,似「民建聯」一樣搞很多活動。但每次反映以上困難時,他們只會口頭答應在下次會議中討論,沒有實際成果;其餘時間則是飯局、酒局為主。「求人不如求己」,Winnie始終覺得若每個人都能像以前工作時那樣互相幫助,不計較個人利益,上司能夠多體諒員工的難處,工作環境才能得以改善。
Winnie did tried to get in touch with the workers’ union, which organized many activities just like the “DAB".  But everytime when she mentioned the above difficulties, they would just said that it would be discussed in the next meeting, and never came back with any results; all they did was just dinners and gatherings.  “better to rely on yourself rather on the others", Winnie always felt that the working condition could only be better, if people could help out each other, not caring
just of their own benefits, and the superior could be more considerate towards the workers, like in the old days.

Irene:每一位勞工都有爭取權益的權力
Irene: every worker has the power to fight for their rights

與Winnie不同,Irene曾從事智障人士宿舍護理員。她服務的香港心理衛生會,最近正在爭取半個小時「食飯鐘」増至一個小時,不過她沒有參與討論,由工會的同事負責。
Unlike Winnie, Irene worked as a caregiver of a hostel for the mentally handicapped.  she served at The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong, workers there are fighting for the extension of the meal time from half an hour to one hour, but she did not participated in the discussions,which were handled by the colleagues of the union.

對於不同種族家務工參與遊行,Irene認為大家都應該爭取自己的權益。看到有家務工團體舉著“Wage Increase $5,000”的牌子,她理解現時家務工工資並不高,且留意到與本地勞工的工資差距很大。但對於應否將她們納入最低工資保障,Irene坦言能爭取到固然好,但由於僱主為她們提供食宿、保險,擔心僱主因負擔增大而不肯接受,所以她提到僱傭雙方應取一個工資中間數,並達成共識。(按:現時移工月薪$4,210,按照每月工作26日、每日工作8小時來計,她們的時薪為$20左右;遊行當日她們要求月薪$5,000,按同樣計算方法,時薪為$24。調查顯示,多數移工每日工作時間約12至16個鐘。)
Talking about domestic workers of various ethnicities, Irene thinks that everyone should fight for their own rights.  Seeing the “Wage Increase, $5,000″ placards that the domestic workers’ organizations were raising, she understood that the wage of the domestic worker was not high, and the substantial difference in the wage of them and the local workers. But when asked of whether they should also be included in the protection of the statutory minimum wage, Irene honestly responded that it would certainly be good if it could succeed, but she worried that the employers might not accept because of the burden on them, since they have to provide food, accommodation and insurance for the worker.Therefore, she said that the employer and the worker should find a middle ground acceptable to both and come to consensus with it. (editor’s notes: the current monthly wage for the migrant workers is $4,210, if calculate with 8 hours’ work per day and 26 workdays per month, their hourly wage is about $20; they demand for the monthly wage of $5,000 in the march, the hourly wage is about $24 with the same calculation.  As researches shown, most of the migrant workers are working 12 to 16 hours a day.)

Irene有同事來自大陸,來港十年八年,以前剛來時做工廠裁縫、零售、老人院等工作。她感覺和大陸同事的相處有不同,主要是由於文化差異。最主要的差別體現在工作方式上,但她認為只要是為工作好,無需勉強對方接受自己的一套。
Irene do have colleagues who came from mainland china, they came to Hong Kong 8 to 10 years ago, they worked as seamstress in factories, retail workers and at elderly homes when they first came to hong kong. She felt that there were differences working with colleagues from mainland china, mainly beacuse of the cultural differences.  major differences were shown in the way of work, but she thought that if the result is good, then it is not necessary to force the others to accept one’s own way.

李小姐:最基本的生存條件
Ms. Lee: the very basic living condition

李小姐參與遊行,是為了「活得精彩」——爭取全民退休保障每月$3,500。退休前的她做了二十三年的巴士司機。她指以前的老闆要求他們以好態度服務乘客,但很多時候收到的投訴並非有關態度,而是無理的指責,如等不到車等。明明是公司訂立的巴士班次問題,老闆卻不予理會。她說雖然巴士司機有成立很多工會,如九巴工會,但均無對工作狀況有實際改善。問及她對很多勞工團體提出工人「集體談判權」的看法, 她指這會是一個與老闆溝通的重要渠道。
Ms. Lee joined the march because she wants to live a life that full – to
fight for the universal pension of $3,500 per month.  before retirement, she worked as a bus driver for 23 years.  she said that her boss then required them to maintain a good service attitude to the passengers.However, most of the complaints were not about the service attidude, but some other pointless allegations, like the late arrival of the buses. It was obvious that the problem was the scheduling of the bus trips, but the bosses would not deal with it. She said although the bus drivers did have unions, like the K.M.B. Staff Union, but they did not managed to better (enhance) the working conditions. When asked about the “collective bargaining power" raised by many labour organizations, she said that it would be an important channel to communicate with the bosses.

身居新界的李小姐,對深水埗等重建區的狀況也有所聽聞。問及市區重建局應如何安置被拆遷的居民時,她認為首先要有足夠的賠償,以及相應的居住安排,因為這是最基本的生存條件;其次便是以鋪換鋪,補償當區的小商戶。此外,她尤其強調原區安置的必要性:「你要改變人哋十幾廿年嘅生活喎!」她想象,搬遷後重新適應新的環境需要頗長時間,而且很有可能離學校、上班地點很遠,交通不便。
Although living in the new territories, Ms. Lee did heard about the
urban renewal projects in ShamShuiPo and the others. When asked of how the Urban Renewal Authority should resettle the residents affected by the projects, she thought enough compensation is the most important, followed by the appropriate accommodation arrangement, because it is the very basic condition of living; and then it would be resettling the shops with shops, to compensate the neighbour business of the affected district, “you are disrrupting lives that they lived for ten twenty year!"  she imagined, adapting to the new environment after the move would take a long time, and it could be much farther away from school and work, so the transportation could become a problem.

李小姐對不同種族家務工參與遊行的訴求並不十分了解,但猜想(實際上也是)與加人工有關。原先她誤以為移工月薪有七八千,但在小記補充其實她們現時的月薪是$4,210後,對比本地勞工受最低工資保障,她認為移工工資的確比較少。她不太熟悉移工的開銷,但根據身邊朋友請移工的經驗,考慮到她們在香港包食宿,懷疑現時工資未必不足。不過,了解到她們需付中介費、每月需寄回家鄉供養家庭的費用,她也坦言非常辛苦,支持她們爭取權益。問及包括移工團體都有提出規管工時的訴求,她認為規管工時與增加工資應雙管齊下,否則無法避免低下階層寧願長時間超時工作以賺取更多金錢。
Ms. Lee is not really familiar with the demands of the domestic workers of various ethnicities, and guessed (it was actually right) that it would be about wage increase.  originally, she mistakenly thought that the migrant workers would have a monthly salary of seven to eight
thousand, but after we informed her that the monthly salary is $4,210,
she thought that the salary of the migrant workers are rather low, when compared with the statutory minimum wage of the local workers. She was not familiar with the expenses of the migrant workers, but according to her friends who had experience in employing migrant workers, she would said their current salary might not be not enough (insufficient), considering that their accommodation and food were covered. However, when she learnt of the agency fee that they had to settle and the money that they had to send to their families,  she agreed that it would actually be quite difficult and support the fight of the migrant workers for their rights. When asked about the demand for working hours protection which the migrant worker organizations are also fighting for, she thought that the standard working hours protection and the wage increase should go hand in hand, without which, the working class would have to rather accept long working hours to earn enough.

至於新移民工人,李小姐較少接觸,但預想他們在工作上遇到最大的問題應該是語言障礙。對於新移民的印象,她指只要為了香港的安定繁榮,來自任何地方的人都無需有差異待遇。
As for workers of newly arrived migrants, Ms. Lee had only meet a few, but she thought that the major problem at work would be the anguage barrier.  asked about her impression of the newly arrived migrants, she said that so long it is for the stability and prosperity of hong kong, people from whatever places should not have different treatments.

阿成:政策忽略了感情
Shing: the policies forgot about feelings and emotions

帶小女兒一同參與遊行的阿成,就職飲食業侍應。每日工作十三四個鐘,超時工作無補水的情況屢見不鮮。他認為飲食業工人爭取工資工時保障是困難的:首先,他們現時沒有很多活躍的工會,談判力較弱。再加上這一行流動性大,對比長期無保障地與資方拉鋸,轉工更為實在。至於改善勞工法例,他指出規管工時最為必要;此外,亦應取消只有符合「四一八」(即僱員為僱主連續工作四星期,每星期不少於十八小時)才能享受勞工福利的規定,保障零散工的權益。
Marching together with his little daughter, Shing is working as a waiter in the catering services. Working for 13 to 14 hours a day and working overtime without pay is always happening.  he thought that it is difficult for catering workers to fight for wage increase and working hours protection: first of all, there are not many active unions and their bargaining power is quite weak.  in addition, due to the high tunrover of the trade, it is actually more practical to change to another job rather than to spend a long time to struggle with the employer without much guaranteed.  when talking about the enhancement of the labour laws, he pointed out that the standard working hours is the most important; besides, the 4-18 requirement (the employee should be working for the employer continuously for 4 weeks and not less than 18 hours per week) for the worker to enjoy protection of the labour regulations should be abolished to protect the rights of the casualized part-time workers.

阿成在工作中有接觸不少新移民同事,他稱相處中最大的障礙是語言,能力則不是問題,與國籍沒有關係。
Shing do have quite a few colleagues who are newly arrived migrants. He said the most difficult barrier is language and communication, but there is no problem in working abilities, which has no relationship with nationality.

提及不同種族家務工的參與,阿成認為香港自稱「國際都會」,容許不同國籍的人提出訴求絕對合理。就他理解,移工的訴求主要是落實最低工資,和反對僱主暴力。針對後者,他尤其提到雖然法例規定星期日是休息日,但很多僱主規定姐姐回家時間,變相令她們只有八個鐘甚至更少時間休息。另外,他還特別留意移工休息的地方:很多人覺得她們阻街、騷擾他人,但他認為這正正體現香港社區嚴重缺乏休憩的空間。現在市區多數室內舒適的空間皆是商場,他不認同「消費先係老細」,「冇理由你為咗人哋嚟消費就整個『香港歡迎你』」,而不歡迎移工,畢竟照顧小孩、打理家務的付出理應被承認。況且政府明明擁有足夠資源,如很多展覽場地、中環海濱活動空間(某天王的演唱會地點),沒有預約使用時長期處於空置狀態,若能善用這類公共空間,大家都能在假期悠閒地休憩,不會對其他人造成不便。
When talking about the domestic workers of various ethnicities, Shing thought that since hong kong thought of itself as “world city", allowing people of different nationalities to raise their demand is absolutely reasonable. Accordingly to his understanding, the main demand of the migrant workers is the realization of the minimum wage and the fight against employers’ violence on them. Focusing on the latter, he especially mentioned that although there is regulation on full rest days, but a lot of employers would set a time for the sisters to return home, and the sisters’ rest day would last for just 8 hours or even less.  furthermore, he specially noted that the places where the migrant workers stayed during their rest: many would think they are causing obstructions disturbing the others, but he would thought it actually shows the serious lack of rest and leisure spaces of hong kong.  in the urban areas,most of the comfortable indoor spaces have become shopping malls. He does not agree that “only those who make consume are bosses", “It is unreasonable that you could make a claim of “HKWelcomesU" to attract people who come to consume, but give no welcome to migrant workers." Afterall, the labours of children caring and household works should rightfully be acknowledged.  moreover, it is clear that the government do have enough resources and spaces with little utilization, e.g. many exhibition venues and the central harbourfront event space (concert venue of an megastar).  if such spaces could be put into good use, everybody could relax and enjoy their holiday there, and it would not cause any inconvenience to others.

問及若新界東北發展計劃實施,有關工程應否優先聘請本地勞工,阿成指出問題的關鍵並非本地或外勞,而是該項政策如何有效執行。若要實行優先聘請本地勞工,他建議應成立監察機構,確保聘請工人的過程、以至工人的實際工作均遵從規定,並配以懲罰機制。對比本地勞工與外勞,他認為原則上不應有差別待遇;而且確保同工同酬,同時可以避免僱主為節省成本而大量輸入外勞。
When asked of whether the local workers should be prioritized to be employed for jobs, if the northeast new territories development project is to be commenced, Shing pointed out that the key to the question is not about local or foreign labours, rather, it is how the policy of the supplementary labour scheme would be effectively implemented. If employment of local workers is to be prioritized, he suggested that a monioring institute should be set up, to make sure the regulations on the recruitment process and the workers’ actual working conditions have been followed.  punishment for non-compliance should also be set. Comparing the local workers and the foreign worker, he said there should not be differantial treatment in principle; ensuring equal pay for equal works could discourgae the employers to import large numbers of foreign worker to minimize the cost.

有關市建局安置迫遷居民的做法,他批評市建局忽略了人的感情。他提及以前小販排檔會被視為家族生意,下一代有權選擇繼承與否;如放棄繼承,政府才能收回牌照。他認為強行收地本身就已經將土地視為財產,而非養育人的地方;但在制度未能改變下,較人道的做法應是尊重租客搬遷與否的決定,不應將發展計劃掩蓋居民的生活選擇。他接觸過深水埗受重建計劃影響的街坊,獨居一人,生活幾十年,在這裡建立人際關係,沒可能讓他搬走。
About the way that the Urban Renewal Authority treats the evicted
residents, he criticized it had forgotten about the feelings and
emotions of people. He mentioned that the fixed-pitch hawkers were
considered as family business in the past, and the next generation would have the rights to choose to inherit the business or not; if they choose not to, then the government could take back the licence.  He thought that the policy of forced resumption of land views the land as mere property, but not a place to nuture people; but before the system  could be changed, the more humane way is to respect the tenants’ decision to move or not, and the development plans should not overwhelm the choice of living of the residents.  He had visited some neighbourhoods affected by urban renewal projects in shamshuipo, living alone there for decades, having developed relationships and networks with the neighbourhood (community), it is impossible to remove him.

後記
After thoughts

縱使四位受訪者均由不同的角度看待各種勞工議題,但小記感受到,勞資雙方平等的話語權承載額外的重量。我們在提出合作社的想象,取消僱主/僱員的從屬關係,嘗試實踐共同決策時,又不得不面對Winnie所揭示的職場競爭、互不信任;在解決平等勞資關係之前,是否應該如阿成所講,對零散工與長工一視同仁,抹平工人之間的分界?
Although the 4 interviewees looked at various labour issues in different
angles, but the reporter could felt that, the equal say between the
employer and the employee carries immense weight and importance.  When we brought up the possibilities of cooperative that replaces the
subordinated position of the employees and by trying to practice
consensus decision making, we cannot refuse to face the competitiveness and distrusts of the workplaces that Winnie illustrated; before we try to resolve the inequality of the employer-employee relationship, should we not strive to remove the boundaries between the casual part-time workers and the permanent worker and treat them in equal terms and as one, just like Shing says?

收起旗幟與大聲公後,我們帶回家的不應只是佈滿口號的傳單或貼紙:遊行隊伍裡有不同種族家務工,有性工作者……講香港勞工,我們是否忽略了他們?高喊改善勞工法例,但正如幾位受訪者所問,究竟如何執行?政策背後,又省略了多少我們重視的人、土地與情感?這些問題大概不是一年才思考一次的。
After packing up the banners and the loudhailers, what we should brought back home should not be just flyers and stickers full of slogans: there were domestic workers of various ethnicities and sex workers in the march… When talking about workers of hong kong, have we forgotten them?  We shouted for the enhancement of the labour laws, but just like what our interviewees asked, how could it be realized?  all these talks about policies, but how many people, land, feelings and emotions that we care about were forgotten?  maybe all these questions should not be thought of just once a year.

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3 comments

  1. 引用通告: 五一勞動節2016-互助採訪隊報導系列 | 草根視點

  2. 引用通告: 影行者通訊 v-artivist newsletter ~ 2016.5.4 | 影行者 v-artivist

  3. 引用通告: 五一勞動節2016-互助採訪隊報導系列 | 自治八樓 autonomous 8a | 學聯社會運動資源中心 social movement resource centre, hkfs

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